Make Money. Make a Difference.
I know I need to let it go it just irks me that someone is so judgmental and such a name called without even knowing me. Hope everyone that reads any of this does inevitably make their own choices in their own life. The reason why I created my blog was the extreme amount of garbage posted everywhere about these companies, and my blog appearantly drowned in this ocean of deceit. Another good substitute is rock sugar or honey. If the truth is bad PR for these companies, it is not correct to hide the truth just to seem fair. If that had happened, it would have saved the world from the horror story known as Monavie, as well as this latest ill-conceived endeavor.
Johnson tried to quickly launch a new product without consulting the distributors. And they deeply mistrusted him. What does he know? A lot of them felt that when the company went public I would exit. The company could annul their distributorship, but that meant forfeiting a business the distributor had built over years.
If expelled, the distributor might take his whole downline—sometimes thousands of people—to another MLM. Top Herbalife distributors ran several dozen such side businesses at the time. They worked like this. They, in turn, would contact the prospective recruits and send them a video that showed testimonials of top distributors describing astounding wealth they had purportedly amassed in very little time and with no discernible skills.
Herbalife shut down Newest Way to Wealth in , before CEO Johnson was hired, and reached a tentative settlement of the suit a few months after he got there. That fall, he considered quitting. He went to see his mentor, Jerry Perenchio, who was then chairman of Univision. Perenchio asked him a series of rhetorical questions, Johnson recalls: You can stick your tail between your legs and go back to Disney, or you can go in there and exercise your desires and will.
The plan was about product, brand, image, and the business opportunity. The company needed its own upgraded manufacturing facilities, he felt, plus labs to ensure that the products really contained the herbs the labels claimed they did. To tout the brand, Johnson wanted to sponsor sporting events, teams, and star athletes. It now sponsors more than of them, including Cristiano Ronaldo, the Portuguese soccer star. Finally, and most important, Johnson wanted changes in the way the business opportunity was pursued.
That meant curbing some practices while also embracing positive ideas being urged by other distributors, he says. At a videotaped global management retreat in June , viewed by Fortune , Johnson appeared to walk a tightrope, discussing the need for these changes while trying not to alienate powerful distributors. It puts distributors in debt up to their ears. Johnson also wanted to embrace changes being urged by two top distributors, which were designed to reduce the high rates of turnover then being experienced among level-five distributors—those beginning to pursue the business.
The company phased in changes. It rolled out its own online software tools, supplanting those sold by distributors. Herbalife charged less and could exercise control over content.
Over time, most top distributors exited that business. The rule changes easing the qualification hurdles for level-five distributors were introduced on a test basis in Russia in , and then globally in As a result, according to statistics provided by Walsh, the percentage of U. Purchasing patterns also changed, these statistics show. Throughout the Johnson era, the size of the average purchase has been getting smaller, while the number of orders has been increasing.
Though the impetus for the changes was apparently not regulatory, its impact could be. In an Herbalife distributor introduced nutrition clubs into the U. The charge entitled the customer to consume on premises servings of three prepared Herbalife products: Herbalife CEO Johnson first heard about nutrition clubs three years earlier, he says, when certain distributors were complaining about them.
Johnson and Walsh went to look at a club in Zacatecas, Mexico. Today there are about 6, nutrition clubs in the U. Herbalife nutrition club owner Edgar Montalban, shown in June , prepares a meal-replacement shake in Queens, N. They became particularly popular in Spanish-speaking communities of the U.
As successful as the model was, not everyone was thrilled with it. Because the clubs let Herbalife sell its products and business opportunity to lower socioeconomic strata than had been previously possible—more vulnerable populations—a former financial journalist named Christine Richard found them to be diabolical.
By the summer of , indeed, Richard had concluded that a great deal was wrong with Herbalife. Above all, she thought, it was a pyramid scheme. Richard worked for the Indago Group, a research boutique that sold much of its work to short-sellers.
When Richard first spoke to investors about shorting Herbalife, many were wary, she recounts in an interview. In , Ackman took a massive public short position predicated on the audacious theory that the then triple-A-rated bond insurer MBIA—whose guarantees were propping up the ratings of countless other financial obligations that Wall Street was flogging across the globe—was catastrophically overleveraged and destined to collapse.
She declined, and the call ended. At lunch afterward DeSimone went from table to table. At one, the woman next to him, who turned out to be Richard, started asking him similar questions. Einhorn is widely revered as perhaps the smartest investor on the Street. The company realized he might be preparing a public short. After its May 1 earnings announcement, Herbalife executives took questions by phone.
If Einhorn was contemplating a public short, DeSimone says, he felt that was material information the public ought to have. It was a variant of the same questions Richard and Schulman had been asking. Herbalife had no lawyer in the room. Live complex, just across from the Staples Center. They had allies inside the hall with open phone lines. But Einhorn was just messing with their heads. Which posed a quandary for Bill Ackman.
Then Einhorn never surfaced. Ackman deliberated for months whether to go public, he says, preparing possible presentations. And then in September, and then in November. Most of these put buyers were effectively betting that the stock would drop markedly sometime before Dec.
He had simply borrowed common stock and sold it—the conventional short position. There was a lot about Herbalife that was suspicious. How could that be? What the company really sold in all these countries, Ackman explained, was not Formula 1 but a fictitious business opportunity. Then he played a creepy, officially produced Herbalife video.
Subsequently, however, CEO Johnson had started toning down such claims, voluntarily disclosing the average gross compensation the company paid its distributors and requiring that income testimonials include disclaimers at least in the U.
The FTC, for its part, does not require such disclosures, nor explain how comprehensive they must be, if provided. At the time of the presentation, Herbalife was already a well-known name on Wall Street. It had enjoyed 12 straight record quarters, and its stock had quadrupled in the previous two years. Then there was the issue of timing.
Ackman presented just 11 days before the end of the year, when hedge fund positions are marked to market for the year. Given the holiday season, there was no way Herbalife could respond that calendar year.
In that context, the bit about Ackman foregoing personal profit struck some as disingenuous. He explained on his blog: As for the notion that Herbalife was desperately expanding into foreign countries because of market saturation, the company had a simple answer: Walsh then offered evidence of consumer demand while asserting the genuineness of the business opportunity.
After Einhorn asked his questions in May, the company had had a reputable corporate survey firm, Lieberman Research Worldwide, perform two 2,person surveys. People who did pursue the business could really make it, Walsh insisted, though it did require very hard work. In it had made 46 of them in the U. In it would also begin paying return shipping costs. Herbalife may now have the most generous buyback policy in the MLM industry. Yet the rate of buybacks was low and had steadily dropped throughout the Michael Johnson years.
It fell from 2. We would like to speak to victims. So he began to look for victims. Later he gave additional moneys directly to local organizations for the same purpose. He declines to estimate the total. At the same time he hired a raft of political consultants to find victims and to approach state attorneys general and other public officials in California, Connecticut, Illinois, Massachusetts, Nevada, New Mexico, and New York.
He was like one of these little Jewish boys, crying that the world was taking advantage of him. Icahn was giving his version of a decade-old dispute that led to a nine-year litigation between Ackman and him. This is a guy who takes advantage of little people. Three days after the spat, Icahn started buying more. All this [other] stuff is off-base and ridiculous. A short squeeze is a feedback loop that occurs when excess demand for a stock pushes the price up, pressuring short-sellers to cover their positions, which requires them to buy stock, which further pushes the price up, and so on.
As Icahn continued buying—today he owns At the time the other biggest buyer was the company itself, which had long been pursuing stock buybacks as a corporate policy. Then fate granted Ackman a weird reprieve. London was quickly arrested for insider trading: London pleaded guilty and, in April , was sentenced to 14 months.
Herbalife hired PricewaterhouseCoopers and said it aimed to have the statements reapproved by the end of the year. Ackman set out to block that from happening. In one of nine follow-up communications to the accountants, Ackman noted: He even offered to have Pershing Square foot the costs. Investors were understandably skeptical of any company-ordered surveys. So several funds did their own.
One longtime major investor told me he commissioned a blinded, high-datapoint, randomized survey asking a wide variety of questions. I asked Ackman this. The charge appears to have gone nowhere. Fidelity and Vanguard retained most of their preexisting stakes now holding This effectively maintained the short bet but placed the fund at less risk if the stock kept rising.
Herbalife suspected, once again, market manipulation. Herbalife complained to the SEC about these puts in March , but the charge has languished.
When the Times tracked down the letter signers, some claimed not to remember having written them. In the context of a short-selling campaign, however, such conduct began to resemble securities fraud. Herbalife shares were further pummeled in April when, in the space of six days, it was reported that the company was under investigation by both the U. Department of Justice and the Illinois attorney general. The bad news for longs got still worse in November, when Herbalife announced its third-quarter results.
After 19 straight positive quarters, the company missed on both earnings and volume guidance. Herbalife blamed the poor results on foreign currency fluctuations and the short-term impact of some new distributor rules. Ackman hailed the news as showing that Herbalife had exhausted its mature markets and that its modest efforts to curb fraud were crippling its ability to do business.
In August it hired Alan Hoffman, a former deputy chief of staff to Vice President Joe Biden, as executive vice president for global corporate affairs. Each hire represented a vote of confidence for the company, as had, in late , the additions of two eminent Hispanics to the board: In April , former comptroller of the U.
Air Force Michael Montelongo also joined the board. The year ended on an important up note for the company. In December a Los Angeles federal judge approved the settlement of a class action against Herbalife that had been brought on behalf of all 1. The dismal result underscored the recurring question: Where were the victims? A group of 18 objectors—16 of them supplied by a Waukegan, Ill.
The Salt Lake Tribune reported this interesting information that came out from a lawsuit with Amway: The memo was in response to raised eyebrows about claims being made about the juice.
Any claims made are purely hypothetical, unsubstantiated and, quite frankly, bogus. Another aspect to consider is that juice itself is shown not to be healthy. For years we thought it was healthy, but that thinking has changed and many view soda and juice as being the same.
Here are some key quotes from that video: A Twinkie or a potato chip or a candy bar has at least a little nutrition.
When you take fruit and you squeeze it, you throw the fiber in the garbage. That was the good part of the fruit. The processing has stripped out the fiber… the good part of the fruit. Well that calories a day does add up… in a year it is MonaVie adds a special ingredient or two to its basic juice to create a juice for a specific purpose.
The above illustrated the minimal value of the juice alone. In four ounces of MonaVie Active there are mg of glucosamine. It takes two tablets to equal the mg of glucosamine in MonaVie Active, which comes out to 12 cents a day. With this noted, scientific research shows that it probably is not worth buying glucosamine at all.
In four ounces of MonaVie Pulse there are 0. On Amazon, I found CholestOff , which actually has 0. What about the resveratrol? While plant sterols have been shown to the FDA to help cholesterol levels, resveratrol remains and unknown… A couple of articles show that we might need to wait for legit evidence on resveratrol.
Four ounces of MonaVie M mun has mg of Wellmune in it. Since this is double the amount in MonaVie, the true cost per serving would be a little more than 31 cents. When I last looked into Wellmune, around the time that MonaVie announced M mun , research as to whether it was helpful was conflicting. One study of people found that they missed no more sick days than the placebo group when taking the product. Also, in addition to the basic 19 fruit juices in the juice it has 11 vegetables.
MonaVie Kosher is a basic juice with no star ingredients that has been certified Kosher. Bottom Line on MonaVie Nutrition: Any way you slice it pun intended , MonaVie is not a good source of nutrition when compared to time-tested advice of just eating fruits and vegetables.
The examples I gave of a single person spending thousands more than equivalent product is multiplied when you consider a family of four. While the talk of many, many testimonials may seem convincing, such testimonials are typical with any MLM product, especially health ones. The fact that you can many testimonials for dozens of other MLM products shows that these testimonials are not unique to MonaVie products… or any ingredients in those products. For more details see: MonaVie is sold via multi-level marketing also known as MLM.
The problem is that the market is already saturated. In order to get there you have to build thousands of people under you and if those people wanted to be juice salesmen they would have been long before now. MLMs replace these people with new hopefuls because their sales pitch is enticing. When MonaVie recruits someone they tell them that they too can have health and wealth for them and all their friends.
The scheme churns through people every year with enough people quitting and joining so that the pyramid scheme never explodes past the population of the earth.
The circumstances surrounding the system set people up to fail. I was shocked as distributors left comments connecting MonaVie to helping with cancer, autism, fibromyalgia, and just about any and every other medical condition under the sun. MonaVie has not been approved by the FDA to help with such conditions making these claims illegal. The FDA warned the company about website claims to treat various diseases such as cancer, arthritis, and Attention Deficit Disorder caused their products to be in violation of the law.
The company continued to sell the product and the FDA and Department of Justice fined the company millions and went as far as destroying the product. The action essentially put an end to Dynamic Essentials. He tells this convincing story how Dynamic Essentials is part of a publicly traded company with products in Wal-Mart and that they found this fascinating ingredient called Limu Moui.
He goes on to essentially claim that limu that unique benefits to help with the system. MonaVie, is an identical copy-cat of Royal Tongan Limu juice, but with acai instead of limu. MonaVie refuses this logical solution that would prevent consumers from be defrauded out of their hard-earned money and still allow them to get the product to those who were interested in it. Mitch Biggs should know better. My goal was to find out how MonaVie would enforce the its policies and procedures which allow it to end a distributorship who is caught making illegal claims.
Or would MonaVie cave, not wanting to create a rift amongst its distributors? I decided to go an look and see if MonaVie is still letting Mitch Biggs be a distributor, which lead me to this video on a local news show. The spot even took the effort to bring a vase of 13 fruits to illustrate the deception.
If this is the stuff that is going on in the open, imagine what is going on behind closed doors! Some may suggest that this is an isolated case — one example of a bad seed that every industry has.
It is a systematic problem which is so prevalent that Dr. The distributors have to come up with some way to market the obscenely overpriced product. They are naturally going to try to make a point that it is a value for consumers as a replacement for medicine or something seemingly expensive like buying a vase of 13 fruits. I also think I covered a lot of it above. Here are a few others:. Schauss has a long list of reputation problems.
One of them was that he faked his credentials and got a mail-order PhD degree from California Coast University. MonaVie pitched Schauss as an expert on acai, but they are the only ones who recognized him for anything like this.
Tellingly, the final conclusion of the study made mention of another study that showed that eating fruit had positive results as well.
Some are pyramid schemes. The entire article from the FTC is well worth reading. Modern pyramid schemes generally do not blatantly base commissions on the outright payment of fees, but instead try to disguise these payments to appear as if they are based on the sale of goods or services. The most common means employed to achieve this goal is to require a certain level of monthly purchases to qualify for commissions.
While the sale of goods and services nominally generates all commissions in a system primarily funded by such purchases, in fact, those commissions are funded by purchases made to obtain the right to participate in the scheme. Each individual who profits, therefore, does so primarily from the payments of others who are themselves making payments in order to obtain their own profit. As discussed above, such a plan is little more than a transfer scheme, dooming the vast majority of participants to financial failure.
This appears to be how MonaVie works. Distributors in the upline earn commissions based on the purchase of other distibutors below. A buying product themselves or B selling twice the requirement to a preferred customer.
This is the typical way that requirement is satisfied. The distributor application for MonaVie prominently includes the Auto-Ship Program ASP so that new distributors can satisfy the active by buying product requirement right away.
The option B to qualify as active by recruiting enough preferred customers, is a new option. Previously the only method was the above option A which makes it quite clear that MonaVie could only be viewed as a pyramid scheme. With the new option B it becomes a little more complex. Since A is a sign of a pyramid scheme, we need data from MonaVie on the percentage of distributors that qualify through the B option.
Anecdotal evidence tells me that the B option is quite rare. In the rare case that a preferred customer is buying the product, it is mostly like that they were sold on the illegal medical claims or deceptive marketing, as described in the section above. The best way to put an end to this scam is to go to the FTC Complaint Assistant and file a complaint. A recent article on CNBC had comments from the FTC saying that few people file complaints on these schemes and thus they rarely put in the resources to investigate them.
There are two reasons why there are so few complaints:. If you do, please sent me a quick mail. MonaVie has started marketing to college students and those who have recently graduated. These are probably the worst candidates for such overpriced MLM products. They have little income and often high student loans. I wrote a whole article about MonaVie Mynt. Thank you for this article. She was surprised when it shot to the higher end of antioxidants level of green.
Blue and Purple are the highest level, yellow and red being at the lowest end. I got the pitch about how her daughter had cancer and this product helped her feel better, how it replaces the nutritive value of servings of fruits and vegetables and on and on.
I can sure juice, eat, bake, cook and whatnot a heck of a lot of natural fruits and veggies for that price and get a lot more nutrition from them. For that kind of money, I should buy beef from the woman selling grass-fed, no antibiotic, no hormone beef!
Then create the problem and then attempt to sell the cure.. This is a completely useless measure that is indicative of pretty much nothing of relevance to health or overall antioxidant status. Monavie makes money selling the device to the dummies who buy it, and then they make money again when the dummies who buy it use it to convince other dummies to buy into the scam.
Instead of alerting the the plebs. Play MonaVie for what it really is a scam to help you get more money. I reckon that will turn even more people away.
The internet is my play ground. Loved reading all your research…. About 20 years ago my boyfriend in college took me home to meet his parents and they pitched Amway to us, urging us to quit school to sell it. My husband swears by Vitamin C and takes a supplement daily. I, however, see no noticeable effects from taking it. Are Vitamin C tablets a scam? I would say so, but he would not. There are too many people with too many stories of how this product has helped them in their daily lives for you to claim that it is not of benefit.
Nothing wrong with that…. Who am I or YOU to say something is overpriced, when obviously there is a market for the product. We have not found another product that gives us the same benefits or tastes as good as Mona Vie. That too, is subjective as nobody is forced into going into the business part of it. Check out every outside sales job posted on Monster…promises of easy six-figures and untold bonuses and riches!
As with any JOB, it all depends on the amount of effort you are willing to put into it. There are reasons why so many people are claiming that MonaVie worked for them: There are lot more people making illegal claims that you say.
I showed in the an article that people making the most money are doing it and when notified, MonaVie does nothing to take their ill-gotten marketing away. They are simply people commenting here and point me to other sites with claims. One is too many. Put it in the store and see if people still pay for it.
If the product is good then this is the easiest way to eliminate the people making illegal claims. MonaVie is meant to be drunk at home as it requires refrigeration.
The lady showing off her Vuitton bag or the guy showing off his equivalent bling not sure what that is is typically doing it because it is a status symbol. This high price has a trickle-down effect of people claiming that it works as medicine because medicines can sell for high prices, but juice typically can not. No one is forced to buy my time-machine either. The jobs posted on Monster are real jobs with real work being done. Furthermore, success in those jobs is determine by output produced.
Pyramid schemes are illegal, and the vast majority of participants lose money. Readers of this website are looking for how to maximize the use of the money they have and learn about legit ways of making more money. A distributor gave me a free bottle of Monavie when I had an abscess in my colon and told me this was a miracle juice from the acai berry that had amazing healing powers.
In fact, I had to wonder if this juice was adding to the Prednisone I was taking since the sugar content was so high. By the end of the bottle I advised my distributor that he had a very tasty juice but the company needed to drop the claims about this thing curing anything.
The marketing is way off and makes no sense. In the end, Monavie folded and its claims were proven false when the FDA and other researchers tested it. In reality, the efficacy of a vitamin C supplement is not subjective. The purpose of the vitamin C supplement is to provide vitamin C, not to correct a disease or cause you to feel anything. If the product contains the advertised amount of vitamin C, then it has fulfilled its purpose.
Problems arise when unscrupulous supplement companies, like Monavie, skirt the regulations and promise things that their products cannot deliver. There is a word that describes distributors who go around making fantastic unverifiable snakeoil wonder-cure claims about Monavie — and that word is A-HOLE.
All it really has to do to work is be wet and fruity. Any expectation beyond that is not only an idiotic pipe-dream but evidence of an illegal conspiracy to defraud consumers.
But I can instantly write you off. If the product was doing anything worthwhile it would have been thoroughly documented already through scientific studies and published medical case reports. But instead all we get is the same old dodgy BS fairy tales from disembodied anonymous voices like yours.
Monavie is akin to a green garbage bag that some lunatic bag lady i. The inventor of Monavie already told us as did commonsense that the juice is analogous to a green garbage bag, and yet here you are still trying to peddle this fantasy about it being a Louis purse — a fantasy, incidentally, that would be readily expected from a Monavie distributor, not a customer.
That kind of behavior is delusional enough to merit pity, but ultimately I can feel no pity for a con artist. Yep, I guessed right. The company is using this shitty joke of a juice as part of a bait-and-switch entry fee into a pyramid scheme. What a sad, sad existence. I have more respect for drug dealers and prostitutes. Let me give you a little advice for the future. Lazy is trying to help people, and only a troubled mind could possibly perceive that the way that you have.
Consider, or ponder one thing… if the Acai berry was that good, and the juice that awesome… do you think for a second that the major juice companies would stand by and let an earth shaking, life changing, universe altering opportunity be monopolized by Mona Vie? Why not use Energize you think.. I hate the stuff it tastes like turds. Doctors said I would be living with this for the rest of my life and none of the cancer treatments worked. Such a terrible comparison as they are not in the same area of beverages, but he does his best to make it work.
The products that I have seen have profoundly benefited a lot of people however operates under a MLM business model. When I look for these type of products, they are no where to be found in beauty shops, pharmaceuticals or health shops.
I tell them it had something nutritional in it my body was missing to heal itself. I put my finger on several fruits and in the machine and got a low score. This was after I was allergic to 3 different medications. So maybe you 1 of the 46 in 10, who make money.
I could also show how it is mathematically a very bad idea to play the lottery. It would still be true even if a lottery winner shows up and says his experience is otherwise. You think carrying around bananas all day is going to do anything. Do you think soaking your hand in fruit juice is going to help you. What you are measuring is not related to how healthy a particular food is.
You should have just linked them to this article all those years ago. I could claim that I have a talking unicorn in my garage. I could challenge you to disprove it, but it would be ridiculous to expect you to do such a thing.
You are working backwards, and anyone with a PhD in biochemistry would tell you so… if it really is a credible story and not a fable. The scanner you are referring to is one that has been disproved in this space almost a year ago.
The method does not measure any other type of antioxidants including all water-soluble antioxidants or distinguish between beta-carotene and other carotenodids like lutein, lycopene, zeaxanthin, etc.
The scanner has no clinical or diagnostic value whatsoever and buying it would be a colossal waste of money. There is a special place in hell for people who use orphans and poor kids in Brazil to camouflage a blatant con game. This one really caught my eye because it included hysterically idiotic statements like the following:. I attended a recruting event as suggested by my chiropractor. I attended a town day business faire today in MA.
I thought I was walking up to a booth about wine. It was Mona Vie. I had never heard of it. The representative told me the scanner used the same technology as the Hubble Telescope to measure the rings of Saturn! The thing looks like a cheap pencil sharpener! After that, I let them scan my finger.
Got the hard sell on the drink. Just had a full checkup, blood tests and all a few months ago. Who should I believe? I looked through the article and comments and I must say, as a newby in MLM since January you are wrong at least in a matter of saying that MLM products or binary systems does not work. It is close to MLM. It is not a pyramid, one buys products and recommend them to others.
Two of my friends have made real serious money at Monavie. It is much more, as I know many people who sticked from ordinary job to Social Marketing oriented, and they are successfull. Please cite your sources to make your point. And please stay away from an appeal to authority fallacy. Sounds like you are confused. For example, I write dozens of positive articles showing people how to save money: Honorius Adamsky, Could you please correct your spelling, grammar, and syntax before you post your nonsense?
I agree Napoleon Hill was not involved in any MLM business, but his positive-oriented guideline shows how to be successfull anyway. And that is the solid base not only for the MLM business. That is why I said the system works. As for the products. I am not a doctor nor a scientist but real examples must to be considered. When you graft something good and legal like that with an illegal pyramid scheme of recruiting others to get your money back you get an MLM. However, cigarette salesmen and a den of pick-pockets would also be positive of their industries.
Look into cognitive dissonance. The problem with throwing around names like Yunus and Napoleon Hill is that you are using an appeal to authority fallacy to misrepresent them as approving of MLM… when they did not. I could go to the annual convention and meet them as well. Distributors always have anonymous friends who are doctors who show examples, but there are never any concrete documented examples. You say that real examples must be considered. I know this is not adding much to the thread, so I will apologize now, but could not help myself and felt I should at least thank you Jeanie for sharing, you too Vogel, for making me laugh, that is hysterical.
I work for a packaging company who makes packaging for companies like MV. Couple of points from my perspective: It sounds like you may have a case to pursue. I go to Salt Lake are for work every month and the shear amount of jobs that companies like these make are staggering.
Accountants, bottle suppliers, box makers, construction for new buildings, label printers, marketing firms, networking companies, lawyers, etc…fighting against something online is your perogative, but what will it actually accomplish? Say you succeed an tear down every MLM. Basically, a crap load of people are out of work or hurting financially. Like I said, I have never participated in, endorsed, purchased, or sold any of these items from any of the companies.
However, it seems to me like your vendetta is vindictive and short sided. If your goal is educate the public, then great. Is it really all that horrible to buy these things like tobacco is? Or is it just poor financial decisions? Because it makes them feel good. People overpay for crap all the time and all they are getting is a false hope for something better. Houses, cars, computers, clothes, juice, watches, furniture.
I can tell you what happens to me; My family and the company I work for lose money. Just a different perspective that you may not have considered. Hard working Americans providing services and products lose if you win.
And what do you win? Point of long rant? Not sure why you would put this in there. Some are direct from corporate, but a majority are from their sales force which are for legal purposes similar to independent contractors. Getting into the economics of it, the point you make is a little silly. Enron employed a lot of people. Why not just let that go? These are not typically your white-color businessmen, but people who can least afford it… people who are desperate for any kind of income.
That money will most likely get used to buy things. Hey it can buy a lot more juice, which requires a lot more bottle suppliers and label makers. That in turn will create many more jobs that what you are see today. You could even find that with all the new demand for product that your company has more business than it ever expected and passing it on to the employees in the form of a raise.
In short, all this money would either find its way back in the economy or in desperately needed savings. When the FTC has warned multiple times that these can be pyramid schemes, and even shut down a few, they should know that they are built on a house of cards. I presume bottle and label makers will continue to make products for other companies. I presume that the lawyers if they were any good will find jobs elsewhere. People know what they are getting into with tobacco.
Cars are the same way. These products compete against each other in a fair market. Spend some time reading this site. How do you distinguish? That short question has a long answer. Even if I did, most do not make the necessary information available for one to know. For the most part. So here we are, just a few days shy of 30 years later, and almost 20 years after the Harvard-MLM rumor had been debunked… and people are still trying to spread it.
What about that seems legitimate to you? The meth thing was to show how ridiculous it is to compare the two. One is punishable by law, the other MLM juice is simply people taking risks to make money and sell a product. The Madoff thing is a perfect example!
He did create jobs, but then was punished by the law. We have a system of justice that can be used. This article, though well documented, cited, and researched, will ultimately not put a sizable dent in the industry. Will a few people read it and change their minds, yeah.
Those are the people that would need protecting if this is so bad and this forum is a poor way to protect them. If you want to get rid of the industry all together, then stop writing and start acting.
Anything worthwhile is going to be difficult. Which has some value, but not what it takes to make the change you claim to be for. They are some of the fastest growing companies in the world…. I guess my question is this, is all this work really accomplishing what you want to accomplish? Seems like a lot to go through just to prove a point. Like you are looking for a teacher to grade your website and give you an A for research and authorship.
I think with the Meth thing you confused an illegal product with an illegal distribution method. Feel free to use the system of justice and prove MonaVie wrong in a court of law. I put forth a blue-print for you. If you have the money to do it, then please go ahead. However, I have had people in various countries I think Singapore was actually one of them see this site and ask me to help them publish it in their country.
Maybe that has helped a few people in Singapore. If you can think of a better way to protect them with our resources available, please suggest it. You mentioned before that you are not a lawyer. In fact, you reminded me that back in someone did take MonaVie to court. I almost forgot about it and just now looked it up.
You might wonder what ever happened to the lawsuit. Well MonaVie settled the case admitting no wrong doing, and created a 4. I think you greatly underestimate the value of educating people. So now you want me to spend billions going after all of them in court?
You say that these companies are growing, but have you looked at Google Trends for MonaVie? You might be interested to know that I published the article in April of , and you can see that from the first comment placed. Then again, this should come as no surprise as One24 quickly fizzled when I wrote about them.
Their latest Google Trends is 0. I appreciate the discourse on this topic. As far as the growth of the industry, I only see if from my end…the companies I do work for have increased their sales over the past couple of years. If they are making false claims, then they are illegal. If these are ponzi schemes then they are illegal. So, yes, the drug analogy still holds true. As far as the police not stopping crime, I agree with you! They should fight crime. I know plenty of police men.
You know how they fight crime?? Ready…they arrest and prosecute bad guys. You know what they do? I only care enough about this conversation to write a few posts. If I did, I would refute your claims if I could , claim slander, and take you to court or have you arrested. Getting into a verbal spat in the comment section of a website will hardly do anything.
Education is important, but who are you educating? The people who want it, or the people who need it? Some friends of mine where in Uganda and noticed there were child soldiers being exploited. They filmed a video and brought it to the US to educate. However, education was not the end goal.
The end goal was to end child soldiers. You know what they did, wrote their senators, congressmen, and foreign leaders. Traveled all around the country, got onto Oprah, got a bill passed through the US legislation and signed by the president, got written into UN policy and have effectively crippled the LRA advancements. They had no budget, but found friends who did. You just need to find wealthy friends who are passionate about the same things you are.
The google trend is gauging interest in internet searches, not company value. Monavie is down in overall sales because the industry is cyclical. The top distributors go from one company to the next. The people making all the products for these companies. I did your same google trend search and many of these companies are stable and growing over the same time period.
All up or stable over that same period of time. Clearly, you are making money of this site. I good goal to say the least. It may not have started that way, but you have found a way to profit here. You have advertisers on here who are likely paying you to be here. According to spyfu and cutestat. Not a bad little deal for you. These numbers are almost year old and likely up if user engagement is up. I feel pretty good in my success rate.
I think meth is taking it a step too far. Again the refresher on that is at the FTC website: Same thing with these companies. Making the information available and helping consumers educate themselves is certainly the first step. One of the creators of the video ended up having to be taken to the mental hospital.
I know that the Google Trend gauges interest and not value. I cited other metrics for the other MLMs that I have covered significantly. Funny thing about website valuations… they are never very reliable. Look at a bunch of bloggers laugh at one company trying to value it: You would be wrong in your guess that making money is my main goal with this website.
I made more from my websites before I started writing about MLM. Banks, mortgage brokers, and other finance companies pay a lot more for advertising than juice companies — especially ones who prefer to use MLM instead of traditional advertising. I sacrifice a ton of time engaging in these comments and that does impact the amount of money I can make from personal finance articles.
I had a friend sell his site bargaineering. Two of my other friends GetRichSlowly. I have effectively given up the opportunity to do what they did to help educate people about MLM. Clearly teachers should love children and work for free, right? How dare they accept payment for their work educating others?!?! They expose scams and they are paid. I go to work 10 hours a day and I take and get off work I am not as tired as I use to be. Your a disingenuous little weasel employing gross fallacies in a pathetic bid to undermine the article.
I contended that mlm was growing as an industry. Not the people you cover. Claiming you led to there demise is fine, but the people just move on. Your cop logic is the Same as people who say that the mlm stuff has helped them. You can only dream about making the impact that invisible children has done.
And Jason is doing great now. Keep being awesome and bringing such insightful dialogue to the conversation. No matter what people say, you are a winner. Some of the people in the MLMs that are collapsing move on, but not necessarily all of them. I think you need to review the cop logic. Fighting MLM, like fighting crime, is not an all-or-nothing proposition. Then there is the Education thing…. Who are you attempting to educate?
What is your passive aggressive somewhat obscure motive in all this? Maybe because you just like to say things and see yourself talk a lot? Just thought I would educate you a little bit, one educator to another.
Let me try it……. I really admire being able to know all those capitalistic things like that. And how can I forget, the comment that started it all…. I only relish the discourse we are having.
But since you appear to be wandering around a bit I thought I would join you on the walk. I explained my connection already, I print things for them all or try to, home skillet. I probably make more money off the products then the people who sell them, like the website owner does. My reason for engaging here is morbid curiosity. I was doing research for a meeting and stumbled over here.
The only other place you find such determination to convince others they are right is on religion sites. Oh Capitalist, your words…they wound me. Whatever will I do, having been judged and found lacking by a disgusting piece of sub-human gutter trash? Guys with passion and no money making an impact. You quickly moved on from the fraud discussion when you were presented with it.
I thought we established that I am making a big impactimpact at least by the best tools we have to measure. The Invisible Children is a much larger organization of people fighting a group that has considerably few supporters and I think considerably less than billion a year in revenue.
Their cause was a lot more localized. There are probably several more reasons why it is a ridiculous comparison.
I liked your original economic thought as it was slightly unique, but it was easy to blow out of the water. I have been drinking the juice for 7 years.. You may look at my more recent review of the NutriBullet and see that I put fruit in a blender too.